LUTC MINS 04-04-2011City of Federal Way
City Council
Land Use/Transportation Committee
April 4, 2011 City Hall
6:00 PM City Council Chambers
MEETING SUMMARY
Committee Members in Attendance: Committee Chair Linda Kochmar and Committee Member Jim Ferrell. Committee
Member Jack Dovey was excused.
Council Members in Attendance: Deputy Mayor Dini Duclos, Council Member Roger Freeman, and Council Member
Jeanne Burbidge
Staff Members in Attendance: Director of Parks, Public Works and Emergency Management Cary Roe, Deputy Public
Works Director Marwan Salloum, City Traffic Engineer Rick Perez, Assistant City Attorney Peter Beckwith, and
Administrative Assistant II Tina Piety.
1. CALL TO ORDER
Committee Chair Kochmar called the meeting to order at 6:01 PM.
2. PUBLIC COMMENT
There was one public comment:
Steve Kindell – He has concerns regarding the proposed speed humps for South 308th Street. He has
communicated his concerns to the Mayor and heard back from the Mayor today and now has further
questions/concerns. The proposed placement for one of the speed humps would place it right next to a
curb. Has the city considered that this could be dangerous with snow and ice? These roads are only 38
feet wide, in the snow, a speed hump next to the curb could cause someone to slide into the curb. One
reason for the speed humps is to divert traffic, but where can traffic go? There is only one other east/west
street in the area. The area meets the criteria for speed humps because of one speeding vehicle that
skewed the results. Since we’ve had burglaries in the area, could this one car have been a police vehicle
going to a crime scene? I believe the speed humps will be a waste of money. Each is on a hill, which can
be a problem for drivers.
Mr. Perez responded that staff is in process of drafting a response to Mr. Kindell. Staff followed city process on this
issue. The city received a petition, a ballot was held, and the majority supported speed humps. Staff took into
consideration that the roads are hilly. In addition, diversion to other streets is not the primary goal; the primary goal is
to slow down the traffic.
3. BUSINESS ITEM
Forward
Topic Title/Description to Council
A.
Approval of the March 21. 2011 LUTC Minutes
Committee approved March 21, 2011, LUTC minutes as presented.
Moved: Ferrell Seconded: Kochmar Passed: Unanimously, 2-0
N/A
B. NTS Program Policy Review and 21st Ave SW at SW 304th NTS Chronology
City Traffic Engineer Rick Perez presented information on this item. Council Member Freeman
commented that he has been informed that speeding tickets have been written for drivers in that
area. Does staff have information on these tickets? Is the number of speeding tickets taken into
consideration when making a decision? Also, does staff know what day the Police radar count
April 19, 2011
Consent
Land Use/Transportation Committee Page 2 April 4, 2010
G:\LUTC\LUTC Agendas and Summaries 2011\4-4-11 Minutes.doc
was done? Mr. Perez replied that the staff does not know the number of tickets or when the radar
count was done, but he will find that information. The staff does not take speeding tickets into
consideration because they are done irregularly. The staff relies on tube counts because the tubes
can be in place all week. Council Member Freeman commented that if the city has proof of
speeding (speeding tickets), that should be taken into account when making a decision.
There were 18 public comments.
Andrea Shelley – She lives on 20th SW and drives the road a number of times each day.
She does not see any speeders. She feels it would be a waste of city funds to add stop
signs. She does not see a need from them.
Florence Hanson – She drives through the area every day. It is a north facing slope and
she is concerned about placing a stop sign at the bottom with snow and ice. People
already have problems with sliding, and having to stop will only make it worse.
Pamela Sommervile – She lives on 23rd Avenue SW and has never seen an issue at that
intersection. She does not like the current speed humps because they are too high. She is
also concerned that the water from 304th runs to 23rd. There needs to be a drainage
culvert.
Opal Gage – She also lives on 23rd Avenue and agrees that a drainage culvert is needed.
She has never seen any congestion in this area.
Jean Koenigs – She lives on the corner of 23rd. She is concerned that speed humps slow
down emergency vehicles and additional unneeded stop signs will slow them even more.
Robert Jones – He lives on 21st in the school zone. He has driven in the area over 46
years and has seen only one accident (when a car ran the stop sign). Additional stop signs
would be a waste of money.
Allen Boice – He lives on the intersection for 20 years. The current speed “mountains”
have slowed traffic in the area. He feels that a sidewalk would make it safer for kids.
Additional stop signs are not needed.
Nancy Combs – She lives on 21st Avenue SW. This has been an issue for many years. She
has tried a number of times to get the city to do something about the issue. She notes that
when the citizens in the area voted for two speed humps and two speed tables, the City
Council changed the vote. The area is very noisy with the school bus at 6:40 and lots of
cars. It gets so noisy she can not leave her windows open. She has witnessed two side-by-
side car races on the street. There is a four-way stop on the other side of the school, why
not on this side?
Steve Tolle – He lives across from Ms. Combs. Recently, his daughter was almost hit by a
car that blew through the stop sign. He does see a lot of speeders. If the city does not use
four-way stop signs to control speed, what are they used for?
Don Bunger – He has lived on 306th for 26 years. He supports the city’s professional
opinion. He is concerned that ice does create a hazard and feels the road should be sanded
more often.
Maggie King – She lives on 24th Avenue SW. She would be impacted by congestion at a
four-way stop sign intersection. She does not want additional stop signs. They already
have to deal with speed humps. The city can spend the money better elsewhere.
John Elting – He is surprised this issue has risen again. People are courteous at that
intersection. It is not a problem. The speed humps slow drivers down. Adding sidewalks
would increase safety in the area.
Rich Lesly – He has lived on 25th Avenue SW for 15 years. He agrees with the majority
of the comments. This is a non-issue. He has not seen any problems at the intersection.
Land Use/Transportation Committee Page 3 April 4, 2010
G:\LUTC\LUTC Agendas and Summaries 2011\4-4-11 Minutes.doc
Paul Levy – He complimented Mr. Perez on his work. There was a major speeding
problem in the area years ago, but the city has responded appropriately with the speed
humps. It is a delight to walk along 21st Avenue SW. From what he has heard, this seems
to be more of a noise issue as opposed to a speed issue.
Lance Maitland – He lives on 305th. The problem revolves around one person. This is a
waste of time, effort, and money.
Nancy McEleny – She has lived in the area for 45 years. Where she lives she is not
directly impacted by the issue, but she is empathetic. Those who rarely travel the area
may miss the stop signs. She suggests painting a white line on the road where people
should stop.
Brian Walker – He has lived on 17th Avenue for ten years and travels through the
intersection twice a day. He has not seen any problems. He walks along the street without
worrying about speeders.
Gary Griffin – He has traveled through the intersection thousands of times. It is only a
problem if people do not stop at the stop sign.
Mr. Perez explained that the city uses all-way stops as per the federal manual, which states that
an intersection should have a significant volume of vehicles and preventable accidents in order
to put in an all-way stop (the intersection in question does not meet this standard). These
numbers should be roughly even for all the streets. If there is a small volume of vehicles, people
will get used to not seeing traffic and will tend to “roll-through” the stop signs. People will
comply if they see the value. The city can put in rumble strips before the intersection, but they
are very noisy. Another thing that may help (as suggested earlier) is to paint a white line on the
street before the intersection.
Mr. Perez will talk to the Surface Water Management staff about the water runoff on 304th and
23rd and the need for a drainage culvert. Mr. Perez said that a number of years ago city staff
researched the issue of installing sidewalks and concluded it would cost about a million dollars a
mile to install new sidewalks.
Staff received eight emails, paraphrased below:
MGB559@comcast.net – Would like to know the number of complaints in regards to this
intersection. Is a resident of the neighborhood and does not find an issue with the
intersection. Is supportive if there are a number of residents who have a problem with the
intersection.
Frank Greer – A resident of the neighborhood who uses the intersection regularly. Does
not have an issue with the intersection, but would like to raise another issue. He would
like the city to install a flashing left turn light at the intersection of Dash Point Road and
312th. There are numerous times when people desiring to turn left on 312th from the
northbound and southbound lanes have to wait unnecessarily for the green arrow.
Wohlwend1@aol.com – Reside at the bottom of 21st and pass the intersection several
times a day. They do not want a four-way stop at the intersection. Putting a stop sign on
21st will not solve the problem of people not stopping at the stop sign on 304th. A solution
may be to put speed humps on 304th.
JO48@aol.com – Why is it necessary to make this an all-way stop?
SLBLucy@aol.com – Lives in View Cliff and drives through the intersection daily. The
area of the city is calm, friendly, and safe. There is very little traffic in the area with the
exception of school times. We have speed humps and the one at this intersection makes it
difficult to make a turn into my neighborhood. A four-way stop would give people a false
sense of security and give drivers an increased likelihood of accidents. Please concentrate
on more heavily trafficked areas.
Land Use/Transportation Committee Page 4 April 4, 2010
G:\LUTC\LUTC Agendas and Summaries 2011\4-4-11 Minutes.doc
MGB559@comcast.net – Suggests a traffic circle at the intersection of 21st Avenue SW
and 305th Street in order to deal with issues raised by one individual.
Julie Gillespie – A resident of View Cliff. Turns at the intersection in question are
awkward because of the unnecessary speed bumps, and more stop signs would make it
worse. There is little pedestrian traffic and we have never seen problems with vehicles
there.
Listentothemusic@comcast.net – Have lived in the area 26+ years. Are confident that the
area is safe and secure. Would like the city to focus on more concerning issues with
respect to Federal Way priorities.
Mr. Perez commented that speed humps on 304th may help the issue of cars running the stop
signs. The city has not received a received a request for speed humps on 304th. Committee
Member Ferrell thanked the audience for attending and expressing their concerns. He thanked
the staff for their work. Chair Kochmar commented that we want to be as responsive as possible
to our citizens.
Committee forwarded Option #1 for both issues as presented.
Moved: Ferrell Seconded: Kochmar Passed: Unanimously, 2-0
4. OTHER
None.
5. FUTURE MEETING
The next LUTC meeting will be held Monday, April 18, 2011, at 6:00 PM in City Hall Council Chambers.
6. ADJOURN
The meeting adjourned at 7:30 PM.
Attest:
Tina Piety, Administrative Assistant II
COMMITTEE APPROVAL:
Linda Kochmar, Chair Jim Ferrell, Member Jack Dovey, Member